there's nothing at all wrong with healthy conversation about ministry. That's why there is a comment box. Without coversation the church would be in a world of hurt. But I'm glad you've joined the discussion!

Not to down the conversation, but I think the time thats been spent talking about this might be put to better use praying & thinking & talking about ways that we can disciple young people and share the gospel with them. You know, things that actually matter. Don't mean to sound negative but someone had to say it.

I believe that all people who claim christianity should be offended by anything being offered from a group who "glorifies" sexual abuse, lustful thoughts and degrades the human body claiming to be Christian. It is time for the world to see a difference in the Body of Christ and for the Body of Christ to be a seperate people as the Word of God has told us to be.....

i am voting Barack

Mostly good ideas, although some are kinda outdated. Messages boards are so 1998 and paying for advertising is mostly pointless if you don't have a product you're trying to sell to earn cash.

I agree with the youth culture part.

Typical overarching stereotypes and biased views of how Christians should vote.

The authors of the New Testament are constantly reminding us that we are family (brothers and sisters, God as our father, Jesus as our brother, etc)..so I think there is a precedent for having a familial tone to our ministry. They also use the teacher/student relationship (disciple/rabbi, etc.). I think "student" ministry better describes what the overall ministry is about, yet referring to each of the individuals as students has the potential to send the an unintended message to the teens (we are here to teach you...instead of we are here to teach you and care for you and help you along this spiritual journey). Again, by no means am I advocating for the term "kids" to be used...but I like relational terminology. However, I don't know what would work without sounding cult-ish.

my question to Nikomas is this, where do you seperate your family from the ministry? My personal children do not like it and actually call me on it when I refer to my students as my kids. They often already feel like they are being robbed of me so much by the church and then to have who they are be robbed as well to is not really worth the title "my kids." I do agree that we want to create the familial feel of ministry but am not sure that I want to replace my family with the students at the church.

If you are not sure why we call them "Generation Y", check out this link: http://bp0.blogger.com/_BEP6yBcOVuk/SCRxnDlSMeI/AAAAAAAAAJQ/2gH6FsWwIWg/s1600-h/Gen+Y.bmp

On the flip side, when I hear some say "my kids" it has a familial undertone, indicating a close relationship. I think teens like that. Not the term "kids", but the familial undertone. When I hear someone say "my students" I don't sense the relationship so much as I sense "this person learns from me in a classroom setting" I think teens want to feel like they are more than just recipients of our knowledge. Instead of being called Pastor by your boss, imagine being introduced as "This is Joe, he learns from me."

I do think the language we use is very important, but saying student in my opinion says we think of you as higher than a teenager because even college students are often referred to as students. I do hate it when adults refer to teenagers as kids, but the word student like tim said is like splitting hairs.

I watch almost every sermon podcast from LifeChurch.tv. They're excellent! Now a bunch of my sr. high kids do, too!

Yeah, one would hope, but reality is, that's just not the case. It's rare that people in church intentionally think about marketing. If anything, it's more like, "Jesus isn't a product that needs to be marketed."

I disagree. Calling me "Pastor" doesn't limit my view of who I am nor does it limit my overall identity. I get the author's point, but I think he's splitting hairs.

(/whispering) I kinda want to play this game.

Thanks for your comment. I would hope that the senior pastor alone is not responsible for marketing. A church should have an evangelism/outreach/marketing team. Hopefully some of those people would have a clue or at least a passion to learn from people with experience in church marketing.

Absolutely true principles, too often we forget the people and just remember the messes.

Great visual reminders!

It's not that most churches think marketing is evil -- it's just that usually the pastor in charge doesn't have any knowledge of marketing and never peruses it. That's why we're stuck with text-based black and white newsletters with nasty clipart. They're trying the best they know how, I guess.

Secrets don't make friends. We need names :)

That has always bugged me. I didn't know about the fix!

The elders in Revelation repeat "Holy, Holy, Holy..." over and over and over again.

Thanks for the tip! I'm gonna check into that.

I agree, I am tired of the same ol' same ol'. We seem to like repeating the same 8 songs on an album and call it good. Hollywood and Christian music seem to be stuck in the same rut of not being creative in their content.